DreamSpeak Interview with Linda Magallon

DreamSpeak Interview
with Linda Magallon

Linda Lane Magallon has been an active participant in the "dream movement" and a lucid dreamer for the past twenty years. She is the author of the book, Mutual Dreaming, former editor of the Dream Network Bulletin and has facilitated 50 dream telepathy and mutual dreaming projects. A member of the founding board of the Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD) and a co-founder of the Bay Area Dreamworkers Group (BADG) with Fred Olsen, Linda credits her first lucid flying dream with sparking her interest in dreaming and ending years of nightmarish dreams.

<Robert> As I recall, your early dream life was unique. How did you become interested in lucid dreaming?

<Linda> I had my first lucid dream on March 8, 1982 at about 4:30 in the morning. Yes, I remember the date and time - it was that powerful. I woke up and went, "Whoa, what was that!?!" Soon, I began haunting the local libraries, reading everything I could find on dreams and out-of-body experiences. Beforehand, I'd had little interest or knowledge of those subjects. I also bought a spiral notebook to write down my dreams, whether they were lucid or not. The experience was life-changing...the first step in a journey that lead me to become a dream researcher.

<Robert> What do you recall of your first lucid dreams?

<Linda> The breakthrough dream was also my first experience of soaring through the sky. I came to especially love and treasure flying dreams. After 3 1/2 years of journal keeping, I did an analysis of my dreams to discover whether there was a pattern to the appearance of flying and lucidity. That's when I discovered my lucid dreams were often preceded by days of non-lucid flying (Patricia Garfield has observed the same thing). During that period I didn't do a lot of incubation of lucid dreams, per se. Rather, I was trying to have OBEs. And later, mutual dreams. The lucidity was a by-product of those efforts.

<Robert> Would you say that those early lucid dreams led to your book, Mutual Dreaming?

<Linda> My breakthrough dream had featured a dream character that I had previously "made up" in waking fantasy. Recognizing Willie and realizing that she was acting independently, like a real person rather than my imaginary puppet, is what brought me to lucidity. In many of my first lucid dreams I went looking for her. I remember writing messages in the sky, calling out her name, asking other dream characters if they knew her and requesting they deliver a message to her. Who was she, really?

Initially, I encountered strangers. But eventually I had lucid dreams of people I knew and I began to look for evidence that I was actually in touch with them. This turned out to be much harder than it sounds! I discovered sometimes I can perceive a bit of information related to the person which is later verified. Other times, it's clear that I've created a feed-back loop, so what I perceive is only what I have projected. And still other times, the dream character seems a co-creation, expressing what I could have known through sensory or subliminal means (or reasonably anticipated or concluded) and what I could not know except via ESP.

In general, when I'm in an indoor dreamscape, I like to talk to dream characters, although I often suggest we go flying together. When outdoors, flying is my favorite activity.

<Robert> Why do you think flying is such a common activity in lucid dreams?

<Linda> Because it's fun! In all the surveys of lucid dreamers I've seen, flying comes up as the number one favorite dream activity. Also, flying is related to the out-of-body experience, which itself often involves floating or flying.

<Robert> What kind of lucid dreaming flyer are you? A swimming flyer? A magic carpet flyer? Or a Superman flyer? What does that feel like?

<Linda> My favorite style is Superman flying because of the emotional euphoria, the sensory aspects (lack of gravity; the wind rushing past the fingertips and through the hair), and the view of the vibrant dreamscape. But, over time, I've tried on many styles - it's creative and enjoyable to experiment.

<Robert> When it comes to flying, many beginning lucid dreamers report "difficulties" - they feel they fly too slow, or they can't get any elevation, or they simply struggle with it. What advice would you give them to fix that, and fly effortlessly?

<Linda> Ah, yes, the Kryptonite Factors! First, let me assure you that flying is not a case of gradual improvement and then a plateau of continual excellence. I have good days and bad days, just as any pilot would. Plus, it's pretty clear that it's a universal and historical challenge. The Babylonians had falling as well as flying dreams, for instance. So, if you do too, consider it par for the course.

Resolution depends on which of the Kryptonite Factors are the culprits. They might be physical (heavy covers, so sleep naked; you actually slipped yesterday and the falling sensation is still lingering). Or psychological (your inner critic is giving you a bad time...help yourself to a healthy dose of cognitive therapy). Or physiological (change your diet or medication; get a good night's rest first). Or cultural (stop reading dream books that tell you it's bad to have flying dreams). Or psychic (you're picking up the fears or fatigue of someone you know). If it's a case of unfounded fear, then it's time for a reality check. Back when I started keeping my dream journal, there weren't a lot of dreamers with whom to compare notes or serve as a support group to my journey. That's not the case now. There are plenty of experienced folks who can tell you, for instance, that sleep paralysis is a common experience and has no lasting negative effects, so just get up off the grass, brush yourself off, and climb back onto your magic carpet. And if you fall, you won't die if you hit ground. According to author Douglas Adams (Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy), the trick to flying is to fall and keep missing the ground. And missing and missing and missing...
:-)

Assuming I've done my daywork to lift the burden of day residue off my back, flying is fairly easy to accomplish. But what if I've gone directly from a heavy day into dreaming? Nowadays, I realize that, during certain nights, soaring may be beyond my easy reach. I might try the low and slow alternatives, if I don't want to stress myself. Or I can push against the sensation of drag and gravity as if I were lifting weights. Flying can be used to beef up the mind muscles. It's a form of dream "aerobics," after all.
:-)

If you're flying into brick walls, for goodness sake, take a break, go talk to other dreamers, go do some research and come back renewed and refreshed, having new ideas to play with.

<Robert> Where would you say that lucid dreamers are flying? In their private dream reality? In a dream reality shared by others who are also in their dream reality? An alternate physical reality? Or something else?

<Linda> Yep. :-) I don't mean to sound facetious, but answering questions about the nature of dream reality could take a book (at least)! So the best I can say right now is, yes, sometimes this and other times that and later, something else. Learning to perceive, learning to differentiate between states of consciousness and source of influence, is one of the greatest challenges for the lucid dreamer. There are discrete states, but like colors in a rainbow, they blend together. Where does blue begin and green end? Similarly, in the hyperspace of dream, where do you begin and I end?

<Robert> How could one investigate that in their own lucid dreaming?

<Linda> States of consciousness? I'd say learning to hold yourself at the doorway of sleep is a prerequisite. Experiment with the state of hypnogogia, dive into one of the images to start your dream. And take advantage of false awakenings. When you go lucid, they become the launching pad for dream state astral projection. It's easier to go from astral to lucid dream than the opposite, unless you wipe out the scenery first, and start from blackness.

Where you begin and I end? Mutual dreaming, of course. Check out information gleaned in a dream with the other person.

<Robert> What challenges are you working on in your own lucid dreaming work?

<Linda> Trying to answer that question you just asked me, about the nature of dream reality. Are, for instance, flying dreams "really" OBEs? Oh, yes, and I'm working with several other dreamers on a lucid dream FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions).

<Robert> You have noticed that some lucid flying dreams seem to be adversely effected by power lines in the dream. What are people reporting there? Do you think power lines are a "symbolic" threat, a self-fulfilling expectation issue or an actual force within the dream?

<Linda> I think they are the grid on the holodeck of the DreamShip Enterprise that's showing through its virtual reality projection.

Here's where the differentiation between states of consciousness plays a part. I experience a difference between a dream state astral projection and a normative, highly visual lucid dream. And the difference is significant in this way. Once a dreamer had a lucid dream in which he was looking at a flowing river. His state of consciousness shifted to the astral state and he found himself looking at the street outside his house. The dream river overlaid the astral street. The form of the astral street served as a vague outline underneath the copy paper on which the dream river was drawn.
Most dreams, the copy paper is pretty opaque. We have no awareness that our dreamscape "hangs" onto imagery from another source, like a vine on a trellis. This other source could be the astral state, but it doesn't have to be. The shape source might be the bedroom in which you lay. One of my dreams had a range of folded mountains that turned out to be the same form as the covers draped over my sleeping husband.

Since consciousness is not limited in *size,* you may be having an in-the-body experience, your spark of consciousness flitting around your physical body, shrunk to the size of the scientists who traveled the blood stream in their tiny vehicle in the Fantastic Voyage. The most common place for the literal/material-minded of our culture to tarry is inside the skull. So the source is whatever features the head and brain have to offer. Neural impulses may well seed some dreams of electricity and lightning. And the lines in the sky? Guesses include the construction elements of eye and brain. We do know that both LSD and lucid dreaming (including lucid hypnogogia) evince the same primary elements: circles, spirals, grids, lattices are seen in both states of consciousness. These shapes seem to be a function or by-product of increased perception of our perceptual apparatus or process (rather than focus on the product of that process).

So, as I said, sometimes the gridwork shows vaguely through. And the dream wraps it's arms around the shape, plus tries to convert the neural source into the closest association drawn from waking life and winds up weaving a picture of...power lines! Folks who don't fly, or who only fly within the head wouldn't experience them. But if they trade their in-the-body experience for the barely sensed material that makes up the head, the eye or the brain.

There's another option to ponder - that the power lines' underpinning is the barely sensed gridwork in the astral membrane. I'm referring to the oval aura that surrounds the human. It's been described as filmy, as light. But I believe it can become more solid under certain circumstances. When lucid dreamers put out strong intention, they create strong thought forms, and I believe they beef up their auras as well. That makes it more difficult to project, or I should say, more of a tactile experience, to move through it. A strong thought form is quite sensory. Have you ever gotten wrapped up in "glass" or stuck halfway in or out of a window? The dream picture overlays the sensation of astral separation.

<Robert> Tell us about one of your interesting lucid dream flights.

<Linda> Here's one that demonstrates some of the things I've been talking about - wires in the sky and multiple levels.

When I'm awake with my eyes wide open, and trying to picture something in my mind, the picture superimposes itself over my view of the physical landscape. But it's quite vague and translucent, so the landscape still shows through. As I drift into sleep, the picture becomes increasingly stable. Then, if I try to remember something, the new memory superimposes itself over the picturescape in a similar manner. That is, transparent memory overlays the more vivid picturescape. In this case, my memory of flying a plane overlaid the dreamscape in which I was super-flying. It's hard to hold onto a memory while concurrently viewing the dream scene. The memory tries to morph or replace the underlying scene. Or it simply doesn't "stick" and soon dissipates.

This dream began when I switched from second-hand observer to first-hand experiential mode. Flying forward launched me into that perspective. Another clue - the props and scenery that I had conjured up in the waking state disappeared once I went to sleep. As the dream was "taking a breath," preparing to establish itself visually, I was temporarily clear of the movie and had a better view of the screen. This view, of course, was the best translation my mind could make under these circumstances. Thus, it's yet another "movie" of a sort, but more true to under-form, I think. That's when I saw the "wires." I believe the "tree branches" are also a quick sketch of the components of primary sight. As the dream state established itself, the view shifted into a more usual dream scene and the primary grid/screen was no longer apparent:

Drifting into sleep, I imagine that I'm at the driver's seat of a car within a traffic jam. Someone, perhaps Willie, is with me. As I wonder how to get out of the jam, I remember a dream in which I was with Willie in a car that turned into an airplane. So I decide (second hand) that the car should stand upright and blast off using the jet engines which appear on the back end. However, as the engines begin shooting fire and shaking the ground, I realize they could be dangerous to the surrounding cars in this tight space. So I picture the car being brought down again.

Next, I see to it that the bottom of the car has rotaries, like a Norelco shaver. I even picture a series of light dashes moving around the car's bumper, then decide that looks too hokey, like a UFO, and get rid of them. Using this system of locomotion, the car levitates off the ground straight up.

First person, I watch us leave the cars and people behind. As I move forward, the vehicle and passenger have disappeared. I fly underneath and through wires stretched across my path and above the grass beneath. I remember and picture when I piloted the Piper Tomahawk - did I fly above or underneath the wires then? I can't remember.

Ahead is a huge eucalyptus. I land on the top half of the trunk. As I climb the smooth bark, I become aware there's a toddler climbing after me. We stop and sit on a branch which gradually metamorphs into boxes in a corridor. My lucidity has been at a low level, but now I become lucid enough to ask the boy his name. As I hold the child in my arms, he gives me two nonsense names, the first starting with an "L." The second is a two-part name with the initials "P" and "S," which I make even more nonsensical as I ask rhetorically, "I wonder why Pookey-Snookey is here?"

A dark-haired woman rushes past us left to right. Without turning her head, the woman replies to my question, "Thought transference from Earth to the Astral Plane." I look up surprised - here's someone who knows what's going on! "Hey!" I yell, stopping her in her tracks. "That's too technical for such a baby!" I gesture at the toddler.

She turns and gazes at me with a What??? expression. Her face is pinched as though she can't quite comprehend what I'm saying. I rise and follow her down the corridor and around the corner. We meet her supervisor, a blonde woman, and talk together. As the supervisor tells the dark-haired woman her schedule, I realize that neither of them is as lucid as I am. Both have pinched faces and I remember other dreams in which non-comprehending people have had this expression.

"I'm a lucid dreamer," I say to confirm this fact. Then, gazing up toward the ceiling, I wonder aloud, "Where are the guides?" I think - there probably aren't many guides in this "time" period.

<Robert> What advice would you give to those readers seeking to improve their lucid dreaming?

<Linda> There's two approaches that have worked for me. One, start from the bottom up.

• Get a good night's sleep; don't even bother to try to remember dreams.
• Recall dreams and Write Them Down! (You are giving your subconscious the message, "Hey, I really do care bout this.")
• Read old flying dreams (It's the easiest way to get back into the feeling tones of that sort of dream...both your mind and body have memories of it). Alternatively, read the flying dreams of model dreamers.
• Incubate flying 3 days in a row (You don't have to have such dreams each day, just set up the pattern, the expectation, backed by that journal keeping).
• Once the dreaming self is active (and flying is very active!), give yourself the suggestion to go lucid. Not for your waking ego to come *down* into the dream, which is the usual direction for most lucid dream induction. But of your non-lucid dreaming self to *rise* into awareness, including, eventually, awareness of the fact that you (both of you) dream.

The other approach is an indirect slip from the top (rather than direct intention). Just as anyone who incubates lucid dreams will get *lots* of non-lucid dreams, so anyone who incubates sleep state OBEs will get *lots* of lucid dreams. So stretch yourself as hard as you can, as far as you can, then let up. Coming back, a trip to lucid dream land will be a comparatively easy voyage.

<Robert> Any last thoughts?

<Linda> If you want to know more about flying, come visit my ever-expanding web site, Dream Flights.

http://members.aol.com/caseyflyer/flying/dreams.html

You can contact me at caseyflyer@aol.com

Disclaimer: All material in The Lucid Dream Exchange is the copyright of the respective contributor, unless otherwise indicated. No portion of The Lucid Dream Exchange may be reproduced or used in any way without the expressed written permission of the individual author, or editors. Views and opinions expressed are those of the contributing authors and are not necessarily those of the editors of The Lucid Dream Exchange.